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	Comments on: Genre in Video Games (and Why We don’t Talk [more] about it )	</title>
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	<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/</link>
	<description>My name is Jesper Juul, and I am a Ludologist [researcher of the design, meaning, culture, and politics of games]. This is my blog on game research and other important things.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Task 3 &#8211; Research &#8211; DP3GAM1Fcameronjyoung		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-109487</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Task 3 &#8211; Research &#8211; DP3GAM1Fcameronjyoung]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2021 11:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-109487</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Posted inunit 12     Genre in Video Games (and Why We don’t Talk [more] about it ) [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Posted inunit 12     Genre in Video Games (and Why We don’t Talk [more] about it ) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Laksmy Irigoyen		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-109221</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laksmy Irigoyen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-109221</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hello!

I find very interesting the discussion about gender in games. I am writing my PhD about RPGs, and this is a theme that I study. In this regard, I follow Stenros&#039; concept of gender (who is based in Fiske&#039;s theory). Stenros determines the concept of genre as: “a cultural convention, which strives to build some kind of an organisation to the huge amount of texts and meanings, which are recycled in our culture by agreement of both the producers and the audiences” (Stenros, “Genre, Style, Method and Focus”, 2005: 168). This is collections of themes (Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Cyberpunk, etc.). I consider appropriate to differentiate between game mechanics (which indicate as playing), and the thematic units (which determine the gender conventions, shared with other art forms).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello!</p>
<p>I find very interesting the discussion about gender in games. I am writing my PhD about RPGs, and this is a theme that I study. In this regard, I follow Stenros&#8217; concept of gender (who is based in Fiske&#8217;s theory). Stenros determines the concept of genre as: “a cultural convention, which strives to build some kind of an organisation to the huge amount of texts and meanings, which are recycled in our culture by agreement of both the producers and the audiences” (Stenros, “Genre, Style, Method and Focus”, 2005: 168). This is collections of themes (Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Cyberpunk, etc.). I consider appropriate to differentiate between game mechanics (which indicate as playing), and the thematic units (which determine the gender conventions, shared with other art forms).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andreas		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-108841</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andreas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2015 12:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-108841</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Jesper, 

Great, I&#039;m always looking for critical input and feedback on game genre studies. I hope I can make my research on genre concepts (at least a few parts of it) available in English some time soon (would be a good chance to practice my English). 

I think that in film studies the impression that genres have some kind of eternal existence was heavily influenced by early studies on the Western genre (like André Bazin) and structuralist theories. Later approaches like the studies by Steven Neale or Rick Altman set the record straight by offering a more dynamic and rather historical approach that also considers the input from the audience and the changing cultural contexts.  I find it quite interesting that for example games like &quot;Red Dead Redemption&quot; refer to cinematic settings that aren&#039;t typical for the traditional Hollywood Western but rather the revisionist Western and this choice also affects the gameplay.    

I think there is still a lot of interesting work to be done, for example in regard to multi-player formats that can appropriate and completely redefine the original setting by creating new forms of play, in my approach I focused only on single-player game genres from the 1970s until the late 2000s.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jesper, </p>
<p>Great, I&#8217;m always looking for critical input and feedback on game genre studies. I hope I can make my research on genre concepts (at least a few parts of it) available in English some time soon (would be a good chance to practice my English). </p>
<p>I think that in film studies the impression that genres have some kind of eternal existence was heavily influenced by early studies on the Western genre (like André Bazin) and structuralist theories. Later approaches like the studies by Steven Neale or Rick Altman set the record straight by offering a more dynamic and rather historical approach that also considers the input from the audience and the changing cultural contexts.  I find it quite interesting that for example games like &#8220;Red Dead Redemption&#8221; refer to cinematic settings that aren&#8217;t typical for the traditional Hollywood Western but rather the revisionist Western and this choice also affects the gameplay.    </p>
<p>I think there is still a lot of interesting work to be done, for example in regard to multi-player formats that can appropriate and completely redefine the original setting by creating new forms of play, in my approach I focused only on single-player game genres from the 1970s until the late 2000s.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesper		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-108733</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 12:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-108733</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Andreas.
Ah, you did write the monograph on video game genre that I said hadn&#039;t been done. I have ordered it now (and I will get a chance to practice my German).

It sounds like an interesting approach. Like I was also alluding to above, other media/art forms may give more of the impression that genres have some kind of eternal existence, so looking forward to reading more.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andreas.<br />
Ah, you did write the monograph on video game genre that I said hadn&#8217;t been done. I have ordered it now (and I will get a chance to practice my German).</p>
<p>It sounds like an interesting approach. Like I was also alluding to above, other media/art forms may give more of the impression that genres have some kind of eternal existence, so looking forward to reading more.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andreas		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-108559</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andreas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2015 00:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-108559</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very interesting debate, I did my post-doctoral lecture qualification (in German Habilitation or the second academic book after the Ph.D.) on game genres a few years ago. I agree that there is a strong difference between game genres (like RPGs, FPS, Adventures, etc.) and the genre relating to the simulated fiction (Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Western, Noir, and so on), I tried to differentiate them by dividing game-specific genres and genre settings that can refer to cinematic, theatrical, pictorial or literary traditions.  I consider one of the pitfalls in genre theory, that haunted film studies and could be avoided in game studies, that too often genres are considered to be static units. Developments in film as well as game history indicate that on the contrary that they are dynamic means of communication (for example in film studies genre theory film noir was labeled a style, but with neo-noir it became a genre with Rockstar Games&#039; L.A. Noire reaching into video games, similar processes can be found in the development of video games with action-adventures turning a genre of its own).        
Genre theory could provide some answers in regard to transmedia concepts beyond texts and narratives.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting debate, I did my post-doctoral lecture qualification (in German Habilitation or the second academic book after the Ph.D.) on game genres a few years ago. I agree that there is a strong difference between game genres (like RPGs, FPS, Adventures, etc.) and the genre relating to the simulated fiction (Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Western, Noir, and so on), I tried to differentiate them by dividing game-specific genres and genre settings that can refer to cinematic, theatrical, pictorial or literary traditions.  I consider one of the pitfalls in genre theory, that haunted film studies and could be avoided in game studies, that too often genres are considered to be static units. Developments in film as well as game history indicate that on the contrary that they are dynamic means of communication (for example in film studies genre theory film noir was labeled a style, but with neo-noir it became a genre with Rockstar Games&#8217; L.A. Noire reaching into video games, similar processes can be found in the development of video games with action-adventures turning a genre of its own).<br />
Genre theory could provide some answers in regard to transmedia concepts beyond texts and narratives.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrew		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-107510</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2015 05:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-107510</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Video games borrow from many traditions, from theater to sports to film to literature. Besides telling a story, each game also requires action to solve a conflict. There are so many parts that could each fit into a genre! For instance, Mass Effect is labeled a shooter strategy role playing game. I found also that a game could be grouped by its purpose or intention. I even made a little chart.  

http://www.bigshouldersmedia.com/blog/2015/1/6/video-game-genres

Andrew @ bigshouldersmedia]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Video games borrow from many traditions, from theater to sports to film to literature. Besides telling a story, each game also requires action to solve a conflict. There are so many parts that could each fit into a genre! For instance, Mass Effect is labeled a shooter strategy role playing game. I found also that a game could be grouped by its purpose or intention. I even made a little chart.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.bigshouldersmedia.com/blog/2015/1/6/video-game-genres" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.bigshouldersmedia.com/blog/2015/1/6/video-game-genres</a></p>
<p>Andrew @ bigshouldersmedia</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesper		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-107072</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2015 13:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-107072</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Michael Right, but this was more in the sense of borrowing from other fields, not as much as creating a work in a particular (game) genre.

What do we gain? It&#039;s a quite developed theory of how art forms change over time and what expectations they bring, but the question is how well it maps to video games.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael Right, but this was more in the sense of borrowing from other fields, not as much as creating a work in a particular (game) genre.</p>
<p>What do we gain? It&#8217;s a quite developed theory of how art forms change over time and what expectations they bring, but the question is how well it maps to video games.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-106967</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-106967</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for sharing your interesting thoughts to which I agree in huge parts although I am not sure about two points you mentioned:
1. I am not sure that video game invention started completely outside genre labels since the people who first created video games were definitely influenced by stories, movies, and board games and had - at least subconsciously - an understanding of genres. They probably - I can only speculate here - tried to create games which were similar to something they already knew.
2. What I am wondering about right now is: What do we gain from studying genres?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for sharing your interesting thoughts to which I agree in huge parts although I am not sure about two points you mentioned:<br />
1. I am not sure that video game invention started completely outside genre labels since the people who first created video games were definitely influenced by stories, movies, and board games and had &#8211; at least subconsciously &#8211; an understanding of genres. They probably &#8211; I can only speculate here &#8211; tried to create games which were similar to something they already knew.<br />
2. What I am wondering about right now is: What do we gain from studying genres?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesper		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-106757</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2015 10:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-106757</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Danc Thanks!

@Richard Interesting way of teaching it. I think that genre theory in general works well to describe sets of expectations and the like, but video game genre just seems to be (even more) fluid and ill-defined than genres elsewhere.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Danc Thanks!</p>
<p>@Richard Interesting way of teaching it. I think that genre theory in general works well to describe sets of expectations and the like, but video game genre just seems to be (even more) fluid and ill-defined than genres elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Bartle		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2014/12/22/genre-in-video-games-and-why-we-dont-talk-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-106756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Bartle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2015 09:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=2017#comment-106756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I used to tell my students about &quot;genres&quot; of games, but I now tell them about &quot;categories&quot;. The reason is that too many of them think a game&#039;s genre is to do with its fiction: Fantasy, SF, Horror and their subdivisions would all count as &quot;genres&quot; in their mind, but FPS, RPG, RTS and the like wouldn&#039;t.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to tell my students about &#8220;genres&#8221; of games, but I now tell them about &#8220;categories&#8221;. The reason is that too many of them think a game&#8217;s genre is to do with its fiction: Fantasy, SF, Horror and their subdivisions would all count as &#8220;genres&#8221; in their mind, but FPS, RPG, RTS and the like wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
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