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	Comments on: The Continued Disdain for Free to Play	</title>
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	<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/</link>
	<description>My name is Jesper Juul, and I am a Ludologist [researcher of the design, meaning, culture, and politics of games]. This is my blog on game research and other important things.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:55:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		By: I see your Weber and raise you some Confucius &#124; Maggie Greene		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57171</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I see your Weber and raise you some Confucius &#124; Maggie Greene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57171</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] of f2p games is old hat at this point, but several points here rubbed me the wrong way (it rubbed Jesper Juul the wrong way, too , but for different reasons). It was a nice example of the excessively Western-centric point of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] of f2p games is old hat at this point, but several points here rubbed me the wrong way (it rubbed Jesper Juul the wrong way, too , but for different reasons). It was a nice example of the excessively Western-centric point of [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sebastian		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57134</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sebastian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 12:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57134</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Jesper,

to your point: Yes, of course! That&#039;s also why, in the AAA case, we have had a big video game review industry, and trailers, and demos, and playable first levels, and the like. They are all risk mitigation strategies as well – only on the demand, not the supply side. It&#039;s a classic economical Arrow information paradox: You don&#039;t know the value of the information before you know the information. 

What you can deduce from that: Because economic conditions shift, the value-add that video game journalism delivers shifts from risk reduction (Is this new &quot;Diablo&quot; game really worth shelling out XX bucks?) to filtering (Which of these XX &quot;Cut the Rope&quot; clones is really worth playing?)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jesper,</p>
<p>to your point: Yes, of course! That&#8217;s also why, in the AAA case, we have had a big video game review industry, and trailers, and demos, and playable first levels, and the like. They are all risk mitigation strategies as well – only on the demand, not the supply side. It&#8217;s a classic economical Arrow information paradox: You don&#8217;t know the value of the information before you know the information. </p>
<p>What you can deduce from that: Because economic conditions shift, the value-add that video game journalism delivers shifts from risk reduction (Is this new &#8220;Diablo&#8221; game really worth shelling out XX bucks?) to filtering (Which of these XX &#8220;Cut the Rope&#8221; clones is really worth playing?)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesper		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57131</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 14:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57131</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Sebastian I completely agree that f2p points to how earlier business models also had built-in preferences and skews.

As for the second point - I also agree that there is a feeling that in the boxed model, because you are done with the purchasing, you can feel free once you are in the game.

But I think the argument cuts both ways:
1) Once you have bought the game, nobody is going to bother you by asking for money.

But:

2) It is also the case that once you have bought the game, nobody is going to care if your experience is terrible.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sebastian I completely agree that f2p points to how earlier business models also had built-in preferences and skews.</p>
<p>As for the second point &#8211; I also agree that there is a feeling that in the boxed model, because you are done with the purchasing, you can feel free once you are in the game.</p>
<p>But I think the argument cuts both ways:<br />
1) Once you have bought the game, nobody is going to bother you by asking for money.</p>
<p>But:</p>
<p>2) It is also the case that once you have bought the game, nobody is going to care if your experience is terrible.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sebastian		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57130</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sebastian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 12:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57130</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The more interesting point for me is to take f2p as a teachable moment to reflect back on previous constellations of video games and ask how their conditions of possibility were shaped by their business models, i.e. coin-op arcade (they *had* to be hard, with short rounds, immediately jumping into gameplay requiring no deep/lengthy introduction, etc.) because they were built around eating quarters. AAA games had a business model much more like Hollywood movies – so you get sequels and audience testing, all of which are risk mitigation strategies given the necessary huge up-front investments.

There is a more nuanced point, though, in comparison to AAA games: There, the monetary transaction happened just ONCE and AT THE BORDER of gameplay itself: I had to convince you to buy my game, and you had to be convinced to buy it. But once that monetary transaction was out of the way, the gameplay itself was a &quot;pure&quot; disinterested, skill-only space. Likewise, once you as a designer could convince investors/publishers that your game &quot;will sell&quot;, the actual minutiae of design decisions within that space are up to your creative freedom and sensitivity &quot;what makes a good game&quot;, and not bound to considerations of &quot;can we squeeze an extra micro transaction out of this?&quot; The historical conditions of the AAA business model created a relative bounded space of freedom from economic considerations for designers and players, and that&#039;s the boundary (and historic precedence and mental model and social norm) that f2p messes with.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more interesting point for me is to take f2p as a teachable moment to reflect back on previous constellations of video games and ask how their conditions of possibility were shaped by their business models, i.e. coin-op arcade (they *had* to be hard, with short rounds, immediately jumping into gameplay requiring no deep/lengthy introduction, etc.) because they were built around eating quarters. AAA games had a business model much more like Hollywood movies – so you get sequels and audience testing, all of which are risk mitigation strategies given the necessary huge up-front investments.</p>
<p>There is a more nuanced point, though, in comparison to AAA games: There, the monetary transaction happened just ONCE and AT THE BORDER of gameplay itself: I had to convince you to buy my game, and you had to be convinced to buy it. But once that monetary transaction was out of the way, the gameplay itself was a &#8220;pure&#8221; disinterested, skill-only space. Likewise, once you as a designer could convince investors/publishers that your game &#8220;will sell&#8221;, the actual minutiae of design decisions within that space are up to your creative freedom and sensitivity &#8220;what makes a good game&#8221;, and not bound to considerations of &#8220;can we squeeze an extra micro transaction out of this?&#8221; The historical conditions of the AAA business model created a relative bounded space of freedom from economic considerations for designers and players, and that&#8217;s the boundary (and historic precedence and mental model and social norm) that f2p messes with.</p>
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		By: Players gonna play, consumers gonna consume &#171; Zoya Street		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57129</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Players gonna play, consumers gonna consume &#171; Zoya Street]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57129</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] a brilliant post on developers&#8217; perceptions of free-to-play, Jesper Juul linked to a study on players&#8217; perceptions of gaming and game ownership within [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a brilliant post on developers&#8217; perceptions of free-to-play, Jesper Juul linked to a study on players&#8217; perceptions of gaming and game ownership within [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesper		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57128</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57128</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Lastowka Yeah, it&#039;s probably not ALL coming to and end ...

@Olivier But isn&#039;t it still weird that a $60 box is somehow non-stingy? And Sheffield mentions bullet points as if it&#039;s some great thing that is sorely missed?

@Mikaela For it to be unethical, you would have to demonstrate that there is some criteria by which Free to Play &quot;whales&quot; are more exploited and less aware of what they are doing ... than are someone who buys most new consoles and high-profile titles.  How would you make that argument?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lastowka Yeah, it&#8217;s probably not ALL coming to and end &#8230;</p>
<p>@Olivier But isn&#8217;t it still weird that a $60 box is somehow non-stingy? And Sheffield mentions bullet points as if it&#8217;s some great thing that is sorely missed?</p>
<p>@Mikaela For it to be unethical, you would have to demonstrate that there is some criteria by which Free to Play &#8220;whales&#8221; are more exploited and less aware of what they are doing &#8230; than are someone who buys most new consoles and high-profile titles.  How would you make that argument?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amy Bear		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57126</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy Bear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 21:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57126</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike O&#039;Brien, of ArenaNet, discussed micro transactions with their forthcoming release Guild Wars 2 in those terms, going further to suggest their store will go a long way to defeating gold sellers. There&#039;s some discussion revolving around the GW2 community regarding disposable income and disposable time both achieving much the same result in game, and a sense of community interest in supporting the game developers with direct rewards. I&#039;m a supporter of the system, myself, having first encountered it with the original Guild Wars - but neither game is truly &#039;free to play&#039; - just subscription free. Especially curious for an MMO business model.

For reference, Mike O&#039;Brien&#039;s article: http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2

The system is still in development, but there appears to be a concerted effort to maintain balance between the haves and the have-nots that I&#039;m particularly interested in following - successful or otherwise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike O&#8217;Brien, of ArenaNet, discussed micro transactions with their forthcoming release Guild Wars 2 in those terms, going further to suggest their store will go a long way to defeating gold sellers. There&#8217;s some discussion revolving around the GW2 community regarding disposable income and disposable time both achieving much the same result in game, and a sense of community interest in supporting the game developers with direct rewards. I&#8217;m a supporter of the system, myself, having first encountered it with the original Guild Wars &#8211; but neither game is truly &#8216;free to play&#8217; &#8211; just subscription free. Especially curious for an MMO business model.</p>
<p>For reference, Mike O&#8217;Brien&#8217;s article: <a href="http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2</a></p>
<p>The system is still in development, but there appears to be a concerted effort to maintain balance between the haves and the have-nots that I&#8217;m particularly interested in following &#8211; successful or otherwise.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mikaela		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57125</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mikaela]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 19:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57125</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I recently  heard an established game developer argue that microtransactions are fair because they level the playing field between him and the people with more time on their hands, and I have entertained the same thought myself. Microtransactions are really a type of “executive summary” for games.&quot;

Concerning the balancing between people with time/little time, I agree with you him. However, isn&#039;t it rather unethical with how microtransactions are used? I mean with the &quot;whales&quot; being the ones providing a lot of the revenue. To me it feels like people with spending issues are paying for my game.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I recently  heard an established game developer argue that microtransactions are fair because they level the playing field between him and the people with more time on their hands, and I have entertained the same thought myself. Microtransactions are really a type of “executive summary” for games.&#8221;</p>
<p>Concerning the balancing between people with time/little time, I agree with you him. However, isn&#8217;t it rather unethical with how microtransactions are used? I mean with the &#8220;whales&#8221; being the ones providing a lot of the revenue. To me it feels like people with spending issues are paying for my game.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Olivier		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57124</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Olivier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 16:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57124</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am also always amazed at the amount of vitriol F2P receives. I understand why Zinga gets flamed for their hyper aggressive monetization but extending that criticism to F2P in general seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

Commenters should avoid these blanket statements and become much more precise in their attacks so that we could form a better idea of what crosses the line and why. 
Brandon Sheffield wrote an article about \&quot;generous\&quot; and \&quot;stingy\&quot; games a while back ( http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/163407/Opinion_The_generous_and_the_stingy__a_growing_trend_in_game_direction.php ). It\&#039;s an idea could very well be applied to F2P to distinguish between games that feel exploitative or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also always amazed at the amount of vitriol F2P receives. I understand why Zinga gets flamed for their hyper aggressive monetization but extending that criticism to F2P in general seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. </p>
<p>Commenters should avoid these blanket statements and become much more precise in their attacks so that we could form a better idea of what crosses the line and why.<br />
Brandon Sheffield wrote an article about \&#8221;generous\&#8221; and \&#8221;stingy\&#8221; games a while back ( <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/163407/Opinion_The_generous_and_the_stingy__a_growing_trend_in_game_direction.php" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/163407/Opinion_The_generous_and_the_stingy__a_growing_trend_in_game_direction.php</a> ). It\&#8217;s an idea could very well be applied to F2P to distinguish between games that feel exploitative or not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Lastowka		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2012/05/15/the-continued-disdain-for-free-to-play/comment-page-1/#comment-57123</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Lastowka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 16:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1512#comment-57123</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You know, it strikes me that there have been very similar situations in other media through the years.  E.g. radio killed musical performance, television killed theater.  For certain, that has been the story of the internet: free text, free news, free photos --&#062; killed the corresponding.  Somehow, though, we still have concerts, plays, books, and even people paying for a few newspapers.  So, like you said, it&#039;s easy to overstate what&#039;s happening with games today.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, it strikes me that there have been very similar situations in other media through the years.  E.g. radio killed musical performance, television killed theater.  For certain, that has been the story of the internet: free text, free news, free photos &#8211;&gt; killed the corresponding.  Somehow, though, we still have concerts, plays, books, and even people paying for a few newspapers.  So, like you said, it&#8217;s easy to overstate what&#8217;s happening with games today.</p>
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