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	<title>
	Comments on: Is Soccer Un-American?	</title>
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	<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/</link>
	<description>My name is Jesper Juul, and I am a Ludologist [researcher of the design, meaning, culture, and politics of games]. This is my blog on game research and other important things.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 05:29:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55888</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 05:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55888</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To answer the question of &quot;is soccer un-american?&quot;  I think it depends on which &quot;america&quot; you are refering to.  The things is that the nations of the united states is undergoing gradual changes that will change the core values thus also changing the sports that people prefer to watch.  Historically we can say that &quot;soccer was un-american&quot;.  But in today&#039;s united states many economic and social changes are taking place that I can foresee a big in the game of soccer(football).  We are slowly moving away from capitalism so that will have an impact on the values and sports in the united states.  The united states today is starting to look alot different from the traditional days.  Soon I think this nation will be a completely new one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer the question of &#8220;is soccer un-american?&#8221;  I think it depends on which &#8220;america&#8221; you are refering to.  The things is that the nations of the united states is undergoing gradual changes that will change the core values thus also changing the sports that people prefer to watch.  Historically we can say that &#8220;soccer was un-american&#8221;.  But in today&#8217;s united states many economic and social changes are taking place that I can foresee a big in the game of soccer(football).  We are slowly moving away from capitalism so that will have an impact on the values and sports in the united states.  The united states today is starting to look alot different from the traditional days.  Soon I think this nation will be a completely new one.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Manuel Boutet		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55771</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Manuel Boutet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[The word by Matthew Philbin:
&quot;Soccer requires comparatively little from children but the ability to run after the ball&quot;
...
reminds me some side comments by Jack Katz, about his book &quot;How Emotions Work&quot;, where he described baseball as a school of shame for little kids.

It suggests me that it&#039;s not only about the structure of the game, but about the whole social situation - as in some Goffman statements about the relationships between representation and situation in &quot;Frame analysis&quot;. To try a formula, we value &quot;representation&quot; (with inside logic), they praise &quot;arena&quot; (as a social mechanic). Is it the same that in MMOs, they value cooperation (which is socially oriented) and we praise pvp (whose results come fully from internal rules) ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word by Matthew Philbin:<br />
&#8220;Soccer requires comparatively little from children but the ability to run after the ball&#8221;<br />
&#8230;<br />
reminds me some side comments by Jack Katz, about his book &#8220;How Emotions Work&#8221;, where he described baseball as a school of shame for little kids.</p>
<p>It suggests me that it&#8217;s not only about the structure of the game, but about the whole social situation &#8211; as in some Goffman statements about the relationships between representation and situation in &#8220;Frame analysis&#8221;. To try a formula, we value &#8220;representation&#8221; (with inside logic), they praise &#8220;arena&#8221; (as a social mechanic). Is it the same that in MMOs, they value cooperation (which is socially oriented) and we praise pvp (whose results come fully from internal rules) ?</p>
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		<title>
		By: whut		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55739</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[whut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55739</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[soccer is hockey for the claustrophobic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>soccer is hockey for the claustrophobic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesper		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55737</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 17:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55737</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@mauricio

I think baseball appears faster to me now that I have a better understanding of what I am supposed to look out for. But it still feels very slow. I do think that a game that you do not understand always feels slow because it looks like noise (or &quot;a mess&quot;) - it is only once you understand the game that you start to see events and changes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mauricio</p>
<p>I think baseball appears faster to me now that I have a better understanding of what I am supposed to look out for. But it still feels very slow. I do think that a game that you do not understand always feels slow because it looks like noise (or &#8220;a mess&#8221;) &#8211; it is only once you understand the game that you start to see events and changes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mauricio		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55736</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mauricio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 17:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55736</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I do not get the &quot;baseball is slow&quot; thing. Ok, the games last hours, but they still have the step by step advance scores, right? One base at a time. And it is turn based (one team controls the ball each time). Still looks a lot like &quot;football&quot; and opposes to the mess of soccer. 

I mean, baseball is slow, but you can focus when something is going to happen (you get the action and the results). And then your focus can be relaxed again in a couple of seconds (like football, unlike soccer).

I admit I do not understand baseball at all, but isn&#039;t that short &quot;focus&quot; what is important for TV, advertisement, and drinking beer?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not get the &#8220;baseball is slow&#8221; thing. Ok, the games last hours, but they still have the step by step advance scores, right? One base at a time. And it is turn based (one team controls the ball each time). Still looks a lot like &#8220;football&#8221; and opposes to the mess of soccer. </p>
<p>I mean, baseball is slow, but you can focus when something is going to happen (you get the action and the results). And then your focus can be relaxed again in a couple of seconds (like football, unlike soccer).</p>
<p>I admit I do not understand baseball at all, but isn&#8217;t that short &#8220;focus&#8221; what is important for TV, advertisement, and drinking beer?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesper		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55734</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55734</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Ernest

I guess the basic cliché is that the U.S. population is impatient and wants to see results and action - but that very clearly rules out baseball, and this makes me doubt that we can really make these types of arguments.

My pet theory is rather that a sport or game only becomes interesting once you have enough familiarity with it to see what is going in, meaning that a sport that for some random reason becomes popular is likely to stay popular.

From personal experience, I can assure you that American Football and Baseball are intensely boring when you don&#039;t know them. But they are also becoming more interesting now that I am getting a grasp of the rules and the different types of play.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ernest</p>
<p>I guess the basic cliché is that the U.S. population is impatient and wants to see results and action &#8211; but that very clearly rules out baseball, and this makes me doubt that we can really make these types of arguments.</p>
<p>My pet theory is rather that a sport or game only becomes interesting once you have enough familiarity with it to see what is going in, meaning that a sport that for some random reason becomes popular is likely to stay popular.</p>
<p>From personal experience, I can assure you that American Football and Baseball are intensely boring when you don&#8217;t know them. But they are also becoming more interesting now that I am getting a grasp of the rules and the different types of play.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ernest Adams		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55733</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ernest Adams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55733</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Baseball is about the lowest-scoring game Americans can tolerate; a typical score is 4-2 or so. In American football you can count on 6-7 scores per game, counting field goals (one of the few times an American football is actually kicked, Jesper). Ice hockey scores can be low, but it is extremely fast-paced and violent -- the energy of soccer compressed into a playfield with less than half the surface area. Basketball is one of the most popular American sports, with scores occurring every 10-20 seconds, and scoring attempts more like every 5 (on average).

Soccer is too slow and too dull. They need to shrink the pitch to 2/3rds of its current size and get rid of the utterly pointless offside rule. (If it leads to scores of 20 and 30 per game, so much the better -- if both sides play by the same rules, what differences does it make?)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baseball is about the lowest-scoring game Americans can tolerate; a typical score is 4-2 or so. In American football you can count on 6-7 scores per game, counting field goals (one of the few times an American football is actually kicked, Jesper). Ice hockey scores can be low, but it is extremely fast-paced and violent &#8212; the energy of soccer compressed into a playfield with less than half the surface area. Basketball is one of the most popular American sports, with scores occurring every 10-20 seconds, and scoring attempts more like every 5 (on average).</p>
<p>Soccer is too slow and too dull. They need to shrink the pitch to 2/3rds of its current size and get rid of the utterly pointless offside rule. (If it leads to scores of 20 and 30 per game, so much the better &#8212; if both sides play by the same rules, what differences does it make?)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55711</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55711</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John Cleese explains the difference:

http://maniacworld.com/John-Cleese%20Rants-Soccer-vs-Football.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Cleese explains the difference:</p>
<p><a href="http://maniacworld.com/John-Cleese%20Rants-Soccer-vs-Football.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://maniacworld.com/John-Cleese%20Rants-Soccer-vs-Football.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Darius K.		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55701</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darius K.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55701</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m reminded a bit of Frank&#039;s article in response to Gladwell&#039;s recent-ish American football debate: http://gamedesignadvance.com/?p=1831

My takeaway is that American football is essentially a game of chance enhanced by a narrative we overlay. Seems like it falls right into the same bucket of traits that those people are assigning to soccer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reminded a bit of Frank&#8217;s article in response to Gladwell&#8217;s recent-ish American football debate: <a href="http://gamedesignadvance.com/?p=1831" rel="nofollow ugc">http://gamedesignadvance.com/?p=1831</a></p>
<p>My takeaway is that American football is essentially a game of chance enhanced by a narrative we overlay. Seems like it falls right into the same bucket of traits that those people are assigning to soccer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Maurício Piccini		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2010/06/11/is-soccer-un-american/comment-page-1/#comment-55695</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maurício Piccini]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=1060#comment-55695</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Still kind on topic: http://www.thespoiler.co.uk/index.php/2010/06/14/americans-still-coming-to-terms-with-the-rules-of-football

I know... but it is a good joke.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still kind on topic: <a href="http://www.thespoiler.co.uk/index.php/2010/06/14/americans-still-coming-to-terms-with-the-rules-of-football" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.thespoiler.co.uk/index.php/2010/06/14/americans-still-coming-to-terms-with-the-rules-of-football</a></p>
<p>I know&#8230; but it is a good joke.</p>
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