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	Comments on: Game Breaks Arm	</title>
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	<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/</link>
	<description>My name is Jesper Juul, and I am a Ludologist [researcher of the design, meaning, culture, and politics of games]. This is my blog on game research and other important things.</description>
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		<title>
		By: L&#228;st och uppskattat under veckan : Medspel		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/comment-page-1/#comment-52976</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[L&#228;st och uppskattat under veckan : Medspel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 12:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=358#comment-52976</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Game Breaks Arm (The Ludologist) [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Game Breaks Arm (The Ludologist) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Niels		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/comment-page-1/#comment-50126</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=358#comment-50126</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Not to mention that russian roulette is a game as well. The stakes are rather high, but still. 

But, then again, whenever you&#039;ll play russian roulette, the painstation or enjoy a good fight, you&#039;ve accepted the consequences in advance. You know you can get hurt - or worse. This is not the case with the Arm Spirit, which is, or should be, harmless.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention that russian roulette is a game as well. The stakes are rather high, but still. </p>
<p>But, then again, whenever you&#8217;ll play russian roulette, the painstation or enjoy a good fight, you&#8217;ve accepted the consequences in advance. You know you can get hurt &#8211; or worse. This is not the case with the Arm Spirit, which is, or should be, harmless.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gareth Williams		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/comment-page-1/#comment-50116</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=358#comment-50116</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Many kids seems to enjoys enjoy fighting as a form of play.&quot;

A very good point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Many kids seems to enjoys enjoy fighting as a form of play.&#8221;</p>
<p>A very good point.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DDams		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/comment-page-1/#comment-50083</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DDams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Interesting thought :).

It may open a link to &quot;serious games&quot;, where the outcome is intented to be deeply connecty with &quot;real life&quot; (either learning someting &quot;useful&quot;, or training oneself to be more efficient on a task through so-called simulators).

Maybe you&#039;re right, this vision is related to the adult vision of the world. I think children point of view on such &quot;harmful&quot; games could be interesting. Besides the fact that gambling is forbidden to children, I bet they don&#039;t need &quot;play to be safe&quot; to recognize it as play. Many kids seems to enjoys enjoy fighting as a form of play.

Does anyone ever heard of a study on this topic ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thought :).</p>
<p>It may open a link to &#8220;serious games&#8221;, where the outcome is intented to be deeply connecty with &#8220;real life&#8221; (either learning someting &#8220;useful&#8221;, or training oneself to be more efficient on a task through so-called simulators).</p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;re right, this vision is related to the adult vision of the world. I think children point of view on such &#8220;harmful&#8221; games could be interesting. Besides the fact that gambling is forbidden to children, I bet they don&#8217;t need &#8220;play to be safe&#8221; to recognize it as play. Many kids seems to enjoys enjoy fighting as a form of play.</p>
<p>Does anyone ever heard of a study on this topic ?</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Gareth Williams		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/comment-page-1/#comment-50079</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=358#comment-50079</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just thought of this: 

Perhaps we are inclined to attach a significant outcome to play as adults because we are increasingly immersed in performance oriented tasks as we enter the adult world? In other words we need to introduce a significant outcome to our play to reconcile it with our adult understanding of the world.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just thought of this: </p>
<p>Perhaps we are inclined to attach a significant outcome to play as adults because we are increasingly immersed in performance oriented tasks as we enter the adult world? In other words we need to introduce a significant outcome to our play to reconcile it with our adult understanding of the world.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Gareth Williams		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/comment-page-1/#comment-50078</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=358#comment-50078</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Agreed, games often involve some kind of penalty for losing, even if it is just feelings of frustration or dissapointment; Raising the stakes can make games more exciting, hence gambling or contact-sports like boxing. I suppose it depends how much sport and games are forms of play.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, games often involve some kind of penalty for losing, even if it is just feelings of frustration or dissapointment; Raising the stakes can make games more exciting, hence gambling or contact-sports like boxing. I suppose it depends how much sport and games are forms of play.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DDams		</title>
		<link>https://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/2007/08/21/game-breaks-arm/comment-page-1/#comment-50045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DDams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/?p=358#comment-50045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I guess you have already heard about the &quot;painstation&quot;, a pong variant that actually harm you if you miss the ball : http://www.painstation.de/

But is this still a form of &quot;play&quot; ? Or does the limit between &quot;play&quot; and others activities, such as &quot;working&quot; lies in the idea that &quot;games&quot; are disconnected from &quot;reality&quot; ?
I think the &quot;games must  be harmless&quot; statement is deeply connected with this particular idea of what &quot;play&quot; is.

But in my opinion, games likes this &quot;masochist&quot; pong or an hypothetic &quot;masochist edition&quot; of Arm Spirit that broke arm of losers on purpose (pain beeing part of the outcome) should question this &quot;narrowed&quot; conception of &quot;play&quot;.

Is &quot;play&quot; only limited to frivolous activities ?
I don&#039;t think so. I think that games involving money or these games featuring a punishing game over are not &quot;frivolous&quot;, but are still a form of play activity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess you have already heard about the &#8220;painstation&#8221;, a pong variant that actually harm you if you miss the ball : <a href="http://www.painstation.de/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.painstation.de/</a></p>
<p>But is this still a form of &#8220;play&#8221; ? Or does the limit between &#8220;play&#8221; and others activities, such as &#8220;working&#8221; lies in the idea that &#8220;games&#8221; are disconnected from &#8220;reality&#8221; ?<br />
I think the &#8220;games must  be harmless&#8221; statement is deeply connected with this particular idea of what &#8220;play&#8221; is.</p>
<p>But in my opinion, games likes this &#8220;masochist&#8221; pong or an hypothetic &#8220;masochist edition&#8221; of Arm Spirit that broke arm of losers on purpose (pain beeing part of the outcome) should question this &#8220;narrowed&#8221; conception of &#8220;play&#8221;.</p>
<p>Is &#8220;play&#8221; only limited to frivolous activities ?<br />
I don&#8217;t think so. I think that games involving money or these games featuring a punishing game over are not &#8220;frivolous&#8221;, but are still a form of play activity.</p>
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