Comments on: The Lack of an Indie Aesthetic

By: The Ludologist » Blog Archive » Shuffling off these Retail Chains

The Ludologist » Blog Archive » Shuffling off these Retail Chains — Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:34:26 +0000

[…] and distributing niche PC game styles to gamers. Manifesto Games. Following what I have commented previously, I think a crucial part is building public awareness that there is a special set […]

By: WRT: Writer Response Theory

WRT: Writer Response Theory — Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:16:01 +0000

IF and Indie Aesthetics in Games

The Ludologist recently hosted an approving discussion of Greg Costikyan’s complaint on the lack on an indie aesthetic in gaming. My reaction to Costikyan’s Escapist article was a little different, although it focused on the same quote:

in gamin…

By: Joshua

Joshua — Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:57:04 +0000

What about art games, interactive fiction, political games, those little flash games that have their links forwarded madly for a few weeks – aren’t they indie games? The idea that indie games should have an INDUSTRY seems a little backward?

By: Dakota Reese

Dakota Reese — Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:08:13 +0000

I find myself in this particular conversation fairly often. The problem is that there aren't indie/underground/avant games. The problem is that there isn't a vibrant community supporting them. To that end, congrats to Santiago for creating his hub. We need places for people to gather, and personally, I feel that the more of them that aren't in cyberspace the better. Most of the brilliant avant games I come across are installation pieces- you can read about them online, but you can't expirience them. In my opinion, the answer is to ressurect the arcade. Someone needs to bring the [physical] games together, and that will bring the people together. We need a flash point. Underground gaming needs a SoHo. To quote Kinsella, 'If you build it, they will come.'

By: Santiago Siri

Santiago Siri — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:35:47 +0000

I’ve been on Costik’s rant at the GDC and that inspired me to actually do something and stop ranting. That’s why I have created the site http://www.gamesareart.com, so all gamers/developers that share his views can unite in that particular site and debate on how the indie aesthetics should be or what can be really done.

Cheers

By: Aubrey

Aubrey — Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:38:11 +0000

I know plenty of gamers who reject games for feeling “too commercial”, especially recently. “187 Drive or Die” has had a lot of critisism thrown purely at its indulgence in all hip hop related cliches and stereotypes, and it isn’t alone.

One particular friend has been boycotting EA’s games since he saw a side by side comparison of the MegaDrive Road Rash trilogy, and couldn’t tell the difference.

Indie players do exist. There’s just not that many of them yet.

By: jesper

jesper — Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:17:48 +0000

Perhaps the hip-hop analogy is not that bad.

As long as hip-hop was underground, there was no need for an “indie” hip-hop aesthetic, but once hip-hop became a mass phenomenon, a defined “underground” or “indie” hip-hop has to appear.

The thing about video games is that while they are mass phenomena, they are constantly being demonized by people like Lieberman and now Hillary Clinton. This makes it feel at least marginally rebellious just to play any video game, and hence there is less of a position for the identity-defining feeling of being an “alternative” game player.

If such a thing as an indie game player existed today, he/she should be rejecting Halo, BF1942, WOW… and only play, perhaps, Darwinia and Puzzle Pirates?

By: Eben

Eben — Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:28:26 +0000

Okay, are we talking about video games or rap music? Or both?
Seriously, the parallels are uncanny.
Is it about the fans or the brands? Style or substance?
Is hip-hop/video games corrupting our youth? (Settle down there, Lieberman)
What’s with all the violence?
Has video game/hip-hop culture been co-opted?

Isn’t it veird?

However I reject the free-market democracy argument, ‘let them eat dog food!’. Are the millions of dollars in marketing really spent in vain? The only reason we have no substance in video games is because it constitutes a risk investors don’t have the balls to take. There are unknown masses of potential gamers disenfranchised or otherwise not yet engaged because of the narrow focus of game genres and publishers. As game theorists and designers we have a responsibility not to allow economics to define what constitutes a good game.

By: Aubrey

Aubrey — Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:02:16 +0000

Yeah. There was a golden age of modding, when you could tweak a shotgun’s spread value, and call it art. Now it’s just as much about polish and presentation as AAA games are.

By: Josh

Josh — Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:12:39 +0000

Heck, we don’t even have a mod aesthetic any more. Any mod that doesn’t come sporting a ton of new models and skins of professional quality might are almost impossible to pass by gamers these days.