Comments on: Is Nutella Left- or Right-Wing? Is Chess?

By: Greg

Greg — Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:31:49 +0000

There’s “ideology” and there’s “ideology.” Some ideologies are indeed logical and self consistent (e.g, Marxist-Leninism, classical libertarianism), and a game developed for ideological purposes by an ideologue will be also. But while Will Wright may have some political/ideological impulses, he is no ideologue, and any ideological elements in The Sims are seconnd-order at best–his assumptions and ideas filtered through the game. Viewing games as ideological artifacts may be occasionnally enlightening, but ideology is not most designers’ main impulse, and whatever ideology they contain must be viewed as reflective of the culture rather than an attempt to change it.

By: ErikC

ErikC — Sat, 22 Jan 2005 06:03:31 +0000

apologies: should read

The first game (The Landlord?s Game) may have failed in its intention, or the 2nd game (Monopoly)may have realised greed pays (derivation by lineage does not necessarily mean inheriting the same values).

By: ErikC

ErikC — Sat, 22 Jan 2005 06:02:07 +0000

Unfortunately, ideology is usually one person’s narrow minded definition of another person’s narrow minded perception of what is and should be done.
And in the scholar’s dilemna of trying to make the observation/branding stick,ie be relevant in history, one risks oversimplying the inertia of an unrealised and highly explosive position that is not fully understood by the person who attempts to assert it.
The monopoly example is interesting but IMHO misleading.
The first game (Monopoly) may have failed in its intention, or the 2nd game may have realised greed pays (derivation by lineage does not necessarily mean inheriting the same values). I guess a simple test is to ask your parents if they think the first game (The Landlord?s Game) did obviously ‘warn against monopolies’.

By: Jesper

Jesper — Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:21:13 +0000

JP: Sims and Sim City are just prime examples of games that are often interpreted to contain all kinds of ideologies on what I find to be rather lose grounds. It happens to many kinds of games – when I was a child, my parents would talk about Monopoly promoting capitalism, but further inspection reveals that the predecessor (The Landlord’s Game) was made to warn against monopolies. The ideology isn’t in the game but in the assumptions around the game (if it’s American and popular, it must be promoting capitalism).

The concept of ideology that I find myself disagreeing with is the one that assumes ideology (or some other base like language or economics) to be a complete determinant of everything that happens and everything we believe. Like the position that Michel outlines above “seeing historically how effects of truth are produced within discourses which in themselves are neither true nor false” is clever and observant, they not also open the floodgates to simply interpreting everything you see (including games) as a reflection of what you believe to be the currently dominant ideology, it also allows you do dismiss whatever contradicts your personal beliefs.

A bit rambling, gotta run.

By: JP

JP — Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:06:23 +0000

By Sim City or the Sims do you mean games in general?

By: Michel Foucault

Michel Foucault — Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:27:10 +0000

The notion of ideology appears to me to be difficult to make use of, for three reasons. The first is that, like it or not, it always stands in virtual opposition to something else which is supposed to count as truth. Now I believe that the problem does not consist in drawing the line between that in a discourse that falls under the category of scientificity or truth, and that which comes under some other category, but in seeing historically how effects of truth are produced within discourses which in themselves are neither true nor false. The second drawback is that the concept of ideology refers, I think necessarily, to something of the order of a subject. Thirdly, ideology stands in a secondary position relative to something which functions as its infrastructure, as its material, economic determinant, etc. For these three reasons, I think that this is a notion that cannot be used without circumspection

By: TL

TL — Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:17:52 +0000

Contradictions, incoherence, complexity, basically a messy world… I don’t know Jesper, sounds to me like we’re on the same page ;)